Systems that grow your business with Devin Lee

Don't you love looking under the hood of other businesses? Me too. That's why I'm excited to share with you my interview with system strategist Devin Lee. Devin designs and builds custom systems for quickly growing businesses. When a lot of us start out, we're just trying to make our business work, and as we start booking clients, as we start scaling and adding team members, we realized those pieces we duct taped together.

They're slowing down our growth, and that's where Devin comes in. In this episode, Devin and I talk about what's changed in her five plus years of working for herself, how she got clients then, and how she gets clients now. The funniest way she's gotten a client and the smart systems she's set up to keep her business running smoothly.

You're gonna wanna take notes on this one. I'm Lex Roman, and this is the Low Energy Leads Show.

Lex: Devin Lee, welcome to the show.

Devin: Hey, Lex, how are you?

Lex: I'm so good kicking this off on a Monday morning.

Devin: Heck yeah.

Lex: Okay, so I like to start by talking with people and like going back in time when you first started, when did you first start working for yourself and what were you doing at that time?

Devin: My first business, I actually was a professional organizer.

I started when I was 27. Um, and you know, it all kind of waterfalled into what I'm doing now. So I was a professional organizer for a few years. I learned a ton during that time. It's a really interesting job. Um, but the thing that's really tough about that, Business, or it was, for me at least, was like the hustle of getting clients was, it was really tough.

'cause I'd get, you know, one month would be great, one month would be hard. Um, it, it, I found it difficult to have consistent clients because of the nature of the work and the way I wanted to run my business. So on um, the side, I started ing for virtual assisting for steady income. My second client ever was a business coach who then told me about online business management, which I had never heard of before.

So then I looked into that, started remark, rebranding myself, marketing myself as an O B M, and then that is kind of what led me to this version of what I'm doing, which is the online service provider world.

Lex: Wow. What a journey like. So I think it's interesting that you said that it's really hard to find clients as a professional organizer because of the nature of the work.

I wanna dig into that a little bit because I think. That it's true that depending on the nature of your business, I both think it's true that any business model can work and that you can sell anything and that some things you like play in hard mode in some spaces. And so can you talk a little bit about why it was so much harder in that business than in the business you have now?

Devin: Yes. And it's relevant to the business I have now. Um, so one of the things that was really tough, especially when I first started was someone would hire you for a session. So I would work in three hour sessions 'cause that's long enough to get stuff done. But after three hours, people's brains totally melt.

'cause it's like, organizing is very emotional work for people. Um, And so people would buy these three hour chunks from me, and then I'd have to resell myself. So I was either desperately looking for clients, booking myself out, and then having no time to like refill the pipeline. And I find that with my business today too.

Like if I have one off offers, like I was doing just v i p days for a while and when I, I love doing v i P days, but then I have to constantly be selling. For a month in order to make it work. And now I'm realizing like, okay, a business model where the projects are longer is more sustainable. 'cause then I can have predictable income for longer.

And I'm not at all times just selling, selling, selling.

Lex: Yes. This is, I think, such a common pitfall. We, we want to do these like one-off projects and we're like, oh, this can solve someone's problem. But then it, it's so much work to sell. And that balance that you're talking about of like, I'm working so I'm not selling.

I think that is like the solopreneur dilemma. Yes. So how did you, I'm just curious how you found clients at all in that business. Um, even though I, I respect that it was a lot of hustle.

Devin: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Let me go back in time. It was so, it was so wild. Um, I did. I was really grateful for that time because I worked so hard to get good at marketing and selling that once I transitioned into this world where it was a little easier to sell, I was like a pro because the, it was so much easier.

But the way I got my first clients is before that I worked in the Montessori world for a few years. So I was friends with all of these parents and the Montessori I worked at was in like the nice part of town. And so I was, um, I was a guides assistant and so when all the parents heard I was leaving to start my own business, they all loved me because.

I became friends with a lot of these families. Um, so a few of them hired me and those were my first clients. Um, and so one of the main ways I got clients was I would donate a free session to all of the, um, silent auction, all the auctions at all the Montessori around town. So these families would buy one of my sessions or, you know, from the auction and then like me and then keep working with me.

So that was one of the ways. And then besides that, Zero consistency. Like there was one month where I made a flyer and I like put flyers up literally in every grocery store and cafe in town. I got one client that way. Um, I had a YouTube channel for a while that did not, that got me nowhere, but it was, I was just like making videos.

Um, I got I think one or two clients on Instagram, so I did a lot of Instagramming. I did I think every type of marketing. Oh, I was in b n I for a year. That got me literally one client like. That was the other thing is I did all of this marketing, I did it all, and I would get one client. And so there was no, so anyways, the only consistent thing was, um, just being kind of friends with all the Montessori parents.

Lex: Yeah. But I think that's a real, it's a real key that we overlook. I, a lot of times people will say to me, oh, I have no one in my network that is like the right fit for my business. Or like, I can't get any leads from people I know and we look to strangers, but it's like you really have to leverage.

Whatever trust you've built up in your life, I love that because that's, it's quite different moving from Montessori to professional organizing, but you managed to sort of leverage that same trust that you built in that space.

Devin: Yeah, something that I find to be true no matter what my business is. 'cause I've had, you know, what, like three or four different iterations of business since that first one.

I think that's true no matter what is, if you are, you know, whether you're new or you're been in business a while, like you just have to talk about what you do constantly. Like at all times. I skip ahead to the story I to. Yes, God. So the most unusual way I ever got a client for this is when I was an online business manager on retainer.

I, this is years ago, I, um, met this guy, went on a few dates, our, like second or third date. Uh, we wanted to go to karaoke, so I invited all of my friends and he invited all of his friends. So the whole night I'm like meeting all of his friends. His best friend is there and his best friend. I'm like talking about what I do, 'cause I talk about it all the time.

And he goes, oh, you're an O B M, I'm a bookkeeper. Like, we need to talk. So we have like an official, like professional. Coffee networking meeting and he is like, I would love to try and refer clients to you. And I'm like, yeah, I could always use a bookkeeper, you know, in case I come across someone who could use your services.

Um, and the irony is like he didn't end up ref, I don't think he ended up ever referring clients to me, but he became my client and has bought a lot of my services. And so I feel like going on dates is a great way to get clients talk about it at karaoke.

Lex: Yeah, I mean, I think there's like a secret handshake when you meet another business owner. There's like a level of shared understanding of like, it's really hard to run a business. It's hard to continue building your client pipeline. And so people are more, other people who have businesses I think are even more open to that than just other people that you know.

Devin: Totally. And something I find as, you know, when I meet someone out in the world and they ask me what I do, I'm, I'm usually like, I'm a system strategist, but like, it's not interesting.

Like we don't have to talk about it. I know you're being polite, but if they are in the same industry or in the same space, they're like, actually, I do wanna hear about it. And then we become best friends that way. Yes. Yes. Uh, I love it.

Lex: Okay, so let's fast forward to today. Tell us what you do now and who it's for.

Devin: Sure. I am a system strategist. I design and build custom systems for quickly going business owners, and I specialize in working with folks who are exiting that. Scrappy solopreneur, solopreneur phase of business, and maybe they're building a team or a group program or something where they need new refreshed, like, you know, big boy systems to kind of maintain the bigger ship that they're now managing.

Lex: I love it. The pull-ups version for your growing business. Yeah. Um, okay. And you mentioned like having gone through all the trials and tribulations in the early stages of your last business or your first business. You stabilized a lot of your lead flow and fig and you're like a pro at marketing now. Can you tell us a little bit about what stabilized and sort of what are some of the things that have really helped you like get off the treadmill of selling?

Devin: Yes. I mean, I still am very much figuring it out, but I feel like I way know, way more know what I'm doing now. And I think one of that is like, it's all data, right? Like I have an Airtable base where I am tracking where all my leads are coming from. I track, you know, how I met them, how long it took from the moment we first met, to the moment they make a decision, what that decision was like.

What? Like I'm tracking all this information. So I can look at this Airtable base and not only see like where do my most of my leads come from? The leads that say yes, where do they come from? And the leads that make me the, like the, the. I guess products or offerings that they buy, like I might sell a bunch of one offering that makes me very little money.

So I actually don't care about where those leads come from. And so I can kind of look at the data of like, okay, most, a lot of my leads come from referrals or relationships or networking. So that's where I'm gonna put my focus on. Um, and I think another thing that I've learned is, You know, this is kind of cliche, but like figure out what avenues of marketing you like and do those, because I've tried them.

I think I've tried them all at this point. And you know, like podcast guesting, writing emails, that's not a huge lead source for me right now, but I would love for it to be. So I'm trying those out and trying to figure out can those be a bigger lead source while still focusing on building relationships and you know, networking.

The things that do bring me the most leads.

Lex: Yes, I'm with you. I think like people are, we talk a lot about like find your target audience where they are, but I think the reality is some of these channels are pretty generalized and you can absolutely find your people on podcast guesting or in the newsletter space or on YouTube or whatever it is that you like doing.

You don't have to just like shove yourself into a box that you don't like doing.

Devin: Agreed.

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Lex: So you mentioned referrals are a big source. That's true for a lot of people, and you have a really cool referral system. Can you tell us a a little bit about that?

Devin: I'd love to, so I always tell people like, I based my, like the, the workflow that you experienced, Lex, like that's based off of. A version of something that someone showed me a long time ago.

So I always tell people when they go through my referral partner workflow, you can copy me, I copied someone else. But basically, well, first of all, like, again, like relationships are the lifeblood of my business as they're for most people. So I try and really intentionally meet with people. Like I'll meet with someone just if I, if someone says, Hey, like you, You two would just be friends.

'cause I think community and support is really important. But if someone I think might have the same type of clients as me, then I really wanna meet with them, really figure out what do they do, explain what I do, and say, okay, I think we, we serve the same people so we could really be good referral partners for each other.

So once we make that agreement, I have a whole workflow in Dubsado that, um, basically sends 'em a contract. Saying, I promise I will thank you a 10% and, you know, handshake and a best friend High five and all that good stuff. Um, just, just to make it official, but mostly I want them to feel like this is important.

I'm not walking away and forgetting about you. From there, it then sends them my blurbs, like, here's how exactly how you can refer me so you can save this wherever, or refer to this email so you know exactly what I'm looking for and how to refer me. And then I ask them to fill out an Airtable form of their blurb.

Who are you serving and how do I, how do I explain you to someone else? Because that puts them in my, like referral partner, uh, table in Airtable. So let's say I am meeting with someone and they're like, gosh, I, I really am looking for a, a co expert. I can go, well, let me look and then I can go to my.

Referral partner Rolodex. I can literally control find copywriter, the three copywriters that I know love and trust are there, so I can copy and paste their name, their email, their website, and their blurb, edit it and send it off. And it makes it so easy for me to refer the people that I trust and have built a relationship.

With, um, and also keep in contact with them, like they are automatically added to my referral partner newsletter. That goes up pretty infrequently, but just keeps up to up to date. Or I can look through and say like, who haven't I talked to in a while? Like, everyone's doing something new in their business at all times.

So since I have it in a database, I can look at the list and say, you know, I dunno what's going on with this person. And I always have new things, so like, let's hop on a coffee chat and let's keep in touch. And it just, it keeps it more intentional and keeps me up to date and it keeps it more, uh, it's not me just asking for things from people, like I'm trying to give to them as well, basically.

Lex: Yeah. And I think that's huge. I mean, I, I don't think I've seen that before in someone referral program. Like, what can I do for you? Kind of like, here, you know, let me help you. Mutually beneficial relationships. I think that's a big key, like that's a big. Growth stage, maturity level thing. Because I think when you first start out, you're like, please send me work.

And then eventually you have enough work where you can say, Hey, I actually have some work to send you. And that's a really cool moment in your business. And it also strengthens those relationships so much more because then you're, then you are. Approaching them in a more authentic way. And this brings me to something that you mentioned before we started recording, which is called Conversation a Day.

Can you tell us what that is?

Devin: Yes. Okay. So I, this was totally inspired by, um, Jordan Gill have done it a day when I did her program. This is one of the things she taught us. So full credit to Jordan Gill. She's so smart. But, um, basically what I have is every time I have a coffee chat with someone that I've really connected with, so maybe all my referral partners are in this tracker as well, but maybe I just connect with someone and I'm like, I just, we vibe.

I wanna stay in touch. I have, I'm looking at it now. I have 75 people in here right now. Always growing. I, I sometimes remove people if it's just not a good fit. But basically it gives me their name the last time we talked. And then I have notes of, you know, what did we talk about? Because sometimes I get on a coffee chat with someone.

I love them. We really vibe. And then I totally forget what we talked about. 'cause I have like five coffee chats a day. Devin, it's such a strong way to approach your relationships. A lot of times when people think about networking, They think I just need to go out and meet as many people as possible and then promptly lose all those business cards.

Lex: Yeah. And so it's really rare to say, okay, here's the set, here's my network, right? And here's a set of people that I want to continue to deepen relationships with. Tell us who those people are. You don't have to give us names, but like do you have a shared audience with them? Like what are they other business owners like? Tell us a little bit about who's in that list.

Devin: Totally. Yeah. It's people all in the same space as me who are serving the same people. Um, primarily like, you know, my focus is mo primarily on building community. Like the referrals come naturally from that. But when you focus on like, I'm just here to make money, like it's just not gonna work.

People can feel it and it's. Icky. So I'm, I, my focus is building community. Um, and so it's often people who are in the same stage of journey as me. Maybe one of them is a little ahead, maybe one of them is a little bit behind. I also like that idea of, you know, there are people that mentor me, like I have my systems, people who know way more about.

Airtable or click up and I go to them and I'm like, Hey, I can't solve this problem. And then they help me. And then I have people that I check in with who ask me questions. So it's all kind of, you know, um, all, we're all in the same sphere together.

Lex:  I'm curious if there's any communities like that you participate in online or offline that you find a lot of these people in, or how have you connected with them? Like where did they come from initially?

Devin: Oh my gosh, everywhere. Like every time I join a group program, the, I like whenever I am learning something new or getting coached, I prefer one-on-one. I'm a teacher's pet. I need that one-on-one attention, but I, I like to, Join group programs. 'cause like I wanna meet other people that are doing the same thing as me.

So I love joining group programs for that. And then like the bonuses that I'm learning something new or I'm always on the lookout for a good high quality networking group. Like there are so many networking groups where they just shove a bunch of people together and the culture isn't really.

Intentional and it just falls apart. So I'm always looking for those high quality networking groups with like the people that I vibe with. It's like an, it's like an energetic thing. Like some people have the sauce and some people don't. And I wanna be around the people who have the sauce, you know? Or even like, I just joined a mastermind and I don't think I'm gonna get referrals from that mastermind, but like I really admire the women in it and the people who referred me.

And so I'm just constantly, I'm very, I'm also an extrovert, so I'm constantly just trying to get in these spaces, in these networking spaces. And then once I'm there, like anytime I'm in a networking Zoom chat every. 10 minutes. I'm copying and pasting. Here's all my stuff. I'd love to connect with all of you.

It has my website, all my social media links, my coffee chat, and I will just keep reposting that over and over again. And if somebody else posts their coffee chat, I sure as hell am gonna click it because that's why I'm there. I'm there to meet people and just see what comes of it. 

Lex: Yeah, I think it's really strong to be building relationships that way. I do think there's a small caveat to that, which is like, Do you ever feel like people are either wasting your time on coffee chats or like siphoning you for free information? How do you sort of toe the line there? Are you just kind of like, free love, I'll meet with anyone and then if you, if you burn me, we won't meet again? Or how do you think about that?

Devin: So I will have coffee chats that go absolutely nowhere and I'm totally okay with that. Not everyone is like that. Um, I do try and be intentional about who I'm meeting with, which is why I try and be in. The right spaces. Like I wanna be a net. Like to me, the biggest disappointment is when I pay to be in a networking community and the people in there are in their first year of business.

Um, so I think it's trying to position myself in the right place and also, um, I turn up the dial on networking when things are slow because I know that that for me has historically been my main way of getting business. And then when I'm really busy with work, I might turn that down and be more intentional with the type of coffee chats I have to preserve my limited energy.

Lex: I love it. Watch out for Devin at the pool. She's gonna pull up the lounge chair with the cocktails. You guys are having a chat today!

Devin: Absolutely. I always say I'm aggressively friendly, like I will be your friend

Lex: Running on the beach. Hey, let's have a coffee chat. I love it. Okay, so referrals, networking. I agree. Those are, relationships are a huge part of service-based businesses. Um, are there any other ways that you get leads when you like, especially when work is slow, what do you do to drum up leads?

Devin: Gosh, besides networking, like I just go back to all of the ways I do marketing.

So I look at what's my content plan? How's my social media going? Um, I love writing emails, so maybe I'll send two emails instead of one. Um, I'll go back to old clients and just pop in with them. You never know what they might need. Um, but you know what I find like I. When things are slow for me, I in the past would get so stressed out and be like, I have to hustle.

I have to find a new way to do X, Y, Z, and like, you know, maybe there's a new interesting offer or a new way to position. Things like that is exciting too. But what I'm learning more and more is like sometimes things are just a little slow and I can like turn up the dials on different marketing avenues, but ultimately, like sometimes you just have to wait for the leads to come.

Lex: If you could give one tip to the audience about how to connect with their best clients, what would it be?

Devin: I'm just gonna repeat myself, but I think for me, being really clear on who my audience is. Like, uh, this is cliche, but I still hear people saying, I serve everyone. You don't serve, everyone, don't do that.

Um, I think once I got really clear about who I serve, it became a lot easier to point my messaging at them. Um, and then also making sure my referral partners know who my clients are, so they're sending me the right people, make sure my messaging is talking to the right people. And then also something I've been doing recently is I.

Um, I haven't had an application to work with me in a long time, but I put it up again because I was getting sales calls with people who would have a great sales call and at the end I'd go, so I only have $500. And I go, oh, I need to filter you out. So I put it, so right now my thing is the application. I ask people like, how much money do you have?

Because I don't wanna be like, that is emotionally depressing. Like, that is an emotional rollercoaster for me.

Lex: Please upload your latest bank statement. Yeah, that's really a tough, I do wanna, um, like highlight for the audience. I think it's what's so strong about what you're doing now, Devin, and it's, it's like the shift from. Your last business to this business is really like you're continually selling, right? You're continually networking and continually honing those relationships, and you're not sort of like, Going out there and dumpster diving for leads, you are continually building that and growing that, and that is like the mark of a business owner who knows what they're doing.

I think it's like the biggest shift, so I just wanted to, wow. Thank you. That's my big takeaway. I think it's an important one for people to pay attention to, and if you need systems to help you with that, you're gonna wanna go to Devin. Yes. And help her book some leads off of this podcast so that she can mark that in her lead tracker.

I also wanna, we're gonna close this out in a second, but I also wanna give a shout out to Kari Ginsburg and Jen O'Sullivan who connected us. That's why I even know you. They are huge connectors too.

Devin: I forgot to say the best way to meet awesome other business owners is to have the ones you already love introduce you.

Yes, I should have said that. It's been said now. I love it. Um, well as we wrap this up, is there anything that you are doing lately that you wanna share with our listeners, Devin? Yes, thank you for asking. Uh, I am, I have a, well, I guess it's not as new anymore. It's not brand new anymore, but I have a mini course called Inbox Zero Hero.

It's currently, the price of Fancy sandwich is only $16. It will get you inbox zero for life. Uh, it takes five days and. I think it's really cool. So if you're interested in having inbox zero, uh, it's a good way to kind of sample what it's like to set up systems for yourself, so you can find that on my website.

Lex: Yeah, I love inbox zero here. I did it and I consider myself a pretty advanced email systems person, but I learned so much from it. And it's like overhauled the way that I'm doing everything. My inbox has never been cleaner. Yes, I love you. Highest recommendation. You're my star student. Um, and if people wanna work with you, Devin, how should they get in touch with you?

Devin: Well, you should go to my website, d e v i n l e e.com. You can read about my services and you can apply to work with me there. Or if you just wanna follow along, you can go there to join my email list. Um, I'm also on the Instagrams at this Devon Lee, and you can kind of follow along there. And that's where, that's where all the places I hang out say hi.

Lex: I love it. I love it. That's all gonna be in the show notes. Devin, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today. Appreciate it.

Devin: Thank you, L It was so fun.

Lex: I just love the joy and ease Devin brings to her business and to ours. Highly recommend getting on her newsletter and grabbing your copy of Inbox Zero Hero.

I'm a huge fan after I used it to overhaul my Gmail systems last month. Find all the links in the show notes. If you're experimenting with how to find your best clients, you're invited to the Growth Gym. The Growth Gym is a practice space for learning how to make. Smarter Marketing Bets skill up on how to choose your best marketing plays when you join me.

Fridays at noon Eastern on YouTube and LinkedIn. Get on the low energy leads newsletter to get notified. Until next time, keep that energy low until you know the value will be high.