Networking like a pro with Eleanor Mayrhofer

When you start a new business, you make a lot of mistakes from knowing where to find clients to managing their expectations. Business ownership is a wild ride of up and downs. In my research entrepreneurs who weather those waves well have one thing in common. They see them coming.

Eleanor Mayrhofer has navigated these waters many times.

A few years back, she made the leap from global agency designer to independent business owner working on client projects for years before starting her own practice makes Eleanor a seasoned service provider. These days she helps German expats carve out their space online. With web design and digital strategy.

In our interview, we talked about how networking is really behind all marketing efforts and the different ways that she approaches building relationships and growing them over time. We also cover how Eleanor shaped her business to avoid some of the pitfalls she saw in the agency world.

I'm Lex Roman, and this is the Low Energy Leads Show.

Lex: Eleanor. Hey, I'm so excited to have you on. Welcome to the podcast.

Eleanor: Thanks. Glad to be here.

Lex: Okay, so as you know, we really like to dig into how people have built their business, and this is your bread and butter too. As a web designer, you spend a lot of time with people who are making a business shift and are trying to find more clients, more customers.

So I wanna go back to the early days of your business and talk about when you started working for yourself.

Eleanor: Well, I had a business before this, so I quit my agency job in 2010 and I had been running a printable side hustle for a couple years. And then when I decided to kind of kickstart this web design business, I had been thinking about it for a long time, but I was very hesitant to have a client-based business because of.

I was worried about all the things I saw at the macro level, working at a global agency, like managing those at a micro level, not without good reason. And, I officially started this business as it is now in about the end of 2019.

Lex: Okay. Awesome. As we were talking before about when you are going into client services, having done that before in another agency context, I think that's a huge leg up.

When you start your own business, can you talk about some of those things that you saw in the agency world that you were like, I need to avoid this when I have my own firm?

Eleanor: The things I were concerned about, I mean, the main thing is always like scope management.

And I worked on projects with extremely seasoned project managers and even became one myself. And just saw how hard that was to do and how difficult those conversations were. And I was, you know, I started getting a lot of projects from my network and some of these were people I knew and liked and. They didn't under, you know, they didn't understand how web design worked and I didn't wanna have scope conversations with them.

It's just all boundary setting and understanding them as people and budgets and not like giant clients with, you know, huge budgets for this. It was very personal and so I was concerned about that. And then there were also the things like, well I showed it to my spouse and they think this color and all that.

I was like, uh, you know, how am I gonna manage that? So I was just kind of like, I liked, you know, especially when I started working with, you know, web builders like Squarespace, it was like, it was so easy and I, I really did miss being hands-on because as many people might know, when you're working at an agency, it's so you just start getting into like meetings and making decks and stakeholder, you know, requirements and getting everybody on board.

And it's like you spend so little time like making the thing, launching the thing and being like, look, I'm done. And I hated that. So I was very eager to get into just like, Having the direct relationship and making the thing, but all the stuff around kind of the project management, I was not looking forward to.

Lex: Yeah. So how has that shifted, like how you think about vetting clients?

Eleanor: Over the course of this business? Well, what really helped me, 'cause I think I had a, uh, I had one, like my first kind of big project and then I discovered product high services. And that really, really helped me. And ironically, the agency that I had been working at Sapient there, they started with like fixed time, fixed scope, fixed price.

And that's really just like a productized service. And once I found that I could kind of hold onto that and say like, This is the offer. This is how long it takes. And then it was up to me to like, you know, I don't start working on that day. You know, I have a launch and a day offer. I've worked before that, but I knew that it was gonna be in a container and that was something I could comfortably articulate and put the price on the website and say, this is it.

Take it or leave it. So that kind of helped me get my sea legs with running my own business and feeling like I could handle that part of it.

Lex: Yeah, I think productized services are fantastic, but I feel like they're still sort of new and people don't talk about them very often. Can you share what that is, what your take on that is, and some of the things that you offer?

Eleanor: So my flagship, uh, productized service is what's called launch in a day, and there's. It's different than, uh, some people are trying to do v i p offers. Like just book me for a day and we'll do a bunch of stuff, but a productized services. So I get you a four page Squarespace website in one day. We're gonna start at 10 o'clock and we're gonna be finished at four o'clock and that's it.

And I very much encourage you to launch, but if we don't, at four, we're done. And I think I've done, I'm pushing 50 of these and I've probably only not launched twice. So it's, and I have a lot of, um, my marketing is around a lot. Like this is just getting you out of the door with something professional.

Maybe you've kind of either tried to DIY it yourself or you have something that you feel embarrassed about and you wanna kind of next level it, but you're not. Ready to do a big brand exploration or all this, and you just need to get a decent looking website out.

Lex: I think it's such a strong position because to your point about design can get, like the scope creep can be such a huge thing.

Eleanor: Mm-hmm. It's, it's constant revisions.

Lex: There's like a joke about how designers aren't worried about AI because you know, clients have to explain what they want accurately. So I think that's what's so beautiful about productized services, particularly for designers. I'm curious how that's shaped how you solve for some of the things that you saw at Sapient or in other agency contexts in terms of your business.

Eleanor: Now, once you time box things and force people to make decisions, stuff would happen. And that was, I think, in any context, half half the battle is just like, you know, we're not gonna have another meeting.

You're not gonna go socialize this in the organization. You're gonna decide in an hour what this is gonna be. And people are much more productive when you do that and. I also think. This is true at like a, at a micro, like small solopreneur level for people like running small businesses. There is a, it's like a psychological process doing this.

So much of it I've learned is not, it's not about that green or this font people, it's just emotional for them to push this thing out and it's gonna change, it's gonna be dynamic. This is not, you know, you written in stone. And yes, you're gonna put your best foot forward and this is gonna look good and you're not gonna have spin in your teeth, but it's, it's like, just you need to do it to move forward.

Lex: But it's really like, yeah, it feels really high stakes to people, right? Yeah. They're like, ah, this is my shingle. And then you're like, no, like the, the, the good and the bad news is no one's gonna come. The flood gates are not gonna open. It's really Okay. Um, okay. So. Can you talk a little bit about going back to when you launched this business, how you found your, your very first clients?

Eleanor: Yeah, so the first thing I did was I, a friend of mine needed a website and I kind of said, let me just trial this and see if I like doing this. And I actually did it on WordPress, I think. And you know, it went pretty well. And I learned some things like, okay, like, you know, I gotta be like clear about scope, blah, blah, blah.

I decided, I mean, the real secret is I got this big tax bill 'cause I'd been freelancing and I had a baby and I just was like, not. Didn't have any regularity. And so I was like, Ooh, it was like a 10,000 year old tax bill I wasn't expecting. So I was like, guess I'm doing this website business. And I, I just threw up a site on Squarespace really fast.

And, um, at that time it was real kismet. I, they still had like their Squarespace marketplace. And this woman in Berlin found me and she happened to be in Munich, helping her sister. And I said, let's meet at a coffee shop. I had like no process, no nothing. And we just did. But it was a great project and she remained, she's been a repeat client and is one of my favorite clients.

So that was like my little sign to keep going in 2019, got really serious and like had a branded shoot and you know, made my site more of a brand and I started just telling my network about what I was doing and then I got a cold lead on LinkedIn. I realized, I think, and I knew I wanted to work with businesses, um, so I didn't, I was like, I'm not gonna hang out on Instagram.

I'm just gonna hang out on LinkedIn. And I had mixed feelings because my old network, like corporate network was there. And if you work in like the UX industry, it feels a little weird. I remember this one woman, and she was like a freelancer. She said, do people still need their websites done? And I sort of felt like, I don't know what I, so because like, you know, we do, it's like, you know, you eating a bowl of cereal, making a website for us, but thank goodness they do plenty do.

Um, but so I just started talking about what I was doing on LinkedIn and, uh, started blogging and repurposing that content on LinkedIn and that was kind of a game changer. But LinkedIn has been very good for me.

Lex: Oh, interesting. Okay. That's really powerful. Yeah, I think the distinction that you just made there between LinkedIn and Instagram is really interesting.

People don't necessarily think about social media that way, right? They just think, oh, I should be everywhere. They don't think, mm-hmm. Okay. Who, where is it easiest to find the kinds of people that I want to be connecting with? So your point about. Business is really interesting. I also think your point about I'm shifting from a past, you know, maybe like high powered profession where I was doing global accounts to making small business websites. Yeah. Right. And, and solopreneur websites. And it's, it is like a big shift and it's one that people hesitate to make, I think, when they quit their corporate job moving into their own business. So how did you approach that in terms of like, you were testing the waters, Did you go all in on like LinkedIn and say, I'm here, I'm doing websites, or did you sort of test it sort of in email and in conversations before you were like, I'm announcing that you were doing web design.

Eleanor: I mean, I was kind of flying by the seat of my pants. 'cause this was also like I. The middle of the pandemic. So I had a toddler at home and my husband was locked in the bedroom doing his, like, quarterly calls and stuff. So I was just like, you know, I wasn't you. If, if it had been different, I would've been networking in person.

Um, but I couldn't do that. And I kind of went all in. Because I did still have a lot of my network there and that it really was coming through my old network. 'cause they knew what I was doing and they were telling people. I mean, I think that's how I got like my first big client. And so I just, yeah, I kind of went all in on that and I was still on Instagram, but I, I just, you know, I said it and forget it with that stuff.

I, I know people get sucked into Instagram but that has never been that for me, ever. Word of mouth is tricky 'cause people will see stuff I post on Instagram and if they know me, they will get in touch. So it is good to be in everybody's faces all the time.  LinkedIn has been, I have gotten people that say, oh, I heard about you from so and so and I don't know who so and so is.

Lex: Yeah. I think the fact that you focus on a place, I think it's really rare, especially coming out of the pandemic with the remote work revolution. Online business owners tend to be like, they kind of like exist in the ether. And you have chosen to be really place-based, right? You focus on German businesses. You focus on expats in Germany, you focus on that region, and I think that's really unique because most people are like, no, I'm global. I'm nowhere. I'm everywhere. And so that's really powerful. Tell us a little bit more about the networking groups and, and how that's effective for you in person.

Eleanor: Well, a lot of the decision about niching was just like, not boiling the ocean or just focusing. I just was like, okay, I, I was really hard for me, this whole niching, and that's is an ongoing process. Niching, you know, it's like always evolving, but that just made it so much clearer about where to spend my time, who to connect with.

What to do. And um, I just noticed I kind of lived in these circles anyway, um, for better or for worse. And if I wanted to do in-person networking and I do go to some German speaking only businesses, um, networking events, but it was just, it was also something I really enjoyed doing.

Lex: Yeah. How do you, when you're at networking events, because I think networking can be kind of a nebulous concept for people, right?

How do you think about who to meet and how to. Like follow up after that event? Like who are you staying in touch with after that and why?

Eleanor: Okay, I'll give you an example. So I met a guy, there's a group called the American German Business Club, which is like, you know, okay, I'm going there. Um, and I met a guy also from California and he's like, he's in the process of launching his business, which he's doing like roasted.

Briskets like Texas style barbecue and these like old propane tanks. So again, I'm just like all over it for a million reasons. Like, okay, brisket, I'm, yay. And so he's kind of getting his site launched up in his, in his business. Set up. But you know, the podcast has been a great tool for that because I'm like, you don't have a podcast.

I'd love to interview you. And then I just follow up on LinkedIn and say, Hey, it's was great meeting you, or whatever. Most people are on LinkedIn, sometimes they're on Instagram, but I find out where they are and I just stay in touch and you know. Make sure we're in each other's orbit. And in the podcast that I'm learning, everybody says networking, networking, networking.

Like when it comes down to it, I think, I mean that's a pretty simple and powerful strategy is like I go to this networking event, I invite them to take the next step. Either being on the podcast or connecting with them on LinkedIn. So we, we are like continuing to have a conversation.

Lex: I think that's, That's really the thing that people miss about networking. They go to the networking event and if there's no clients there, they're kind of like, okay, that was it. Right? That was the end of this. And it's the idea that this is the beginning of the conversation that makes it actually valuable.

Eleanor: Right. I actually never go into thinking, I'm gonna get leads from this meeting. That's just not my mindset at all. It's just like expanding the network because it's like a ripple effect that comes out of that. And the thing about the whole expat thing is powerful is that, is when you're an expat, it's an immediate bond. It's an immediate, like, how'd you get here? What's your story?

It's, it makes networking. I'm kind of an ambivert when it comes to being extrovert, introvert, but it just makes having a conversation way easier, um, because you can just kick off with that. But yeah, I don't go thinking like, okay, I'm gonna leave. This meeting with four leads, I'm just gonna meet some people and, okay.

Lex: Going back to what you said about the podcast, I think the podcast is in itself a networking tool as you just pointed out. Tell us a little bit about how you see the podcast in your business and, and how, what its role is for you. 

Eleanor: Well, I started the podcast because one of you know, a good marketing tactic is to get on a lot of podcasts. So I was like, where are the podcasts about expat businesses in Germany? And of course there were none. So I was like, oh, well here is a niche and I will just start one with a lot of trepidation because I knew how much work a podcast is, and this is just my first season.

And like my scheduling has been a little spotty, but. You know, progress, not perfection. I, I also see it as an expanded networking tool.

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Lex: And I think people think a lot about podcasts as like, oh, I'm just broadcasting. And it's really about like this broadcasting reach. But there is real power in the relationships that you build on the podcast with the people that you bring on. And I think it's really strong to go into a networking event.

I. And to meet someone cool who's making briskets in Germany and to say, I'd really like to have you on on the podcast. And to basically offer a platform to this person and deepen the relationship pretty fast. It's like you're really expediting your networking through having that in your back pocket.

Eleanor: And it feels good also to support other people and they're similar journey.

Lex: Okay. I wanna go back a few questions to what you, you mentioned about LinkedIn, 'cause I'm sure people listening want to hear your LinkedIn strategy. Tell us a little bit about how you've developed that.

Eleanor: So the gist of it is, and I don't wanna like overstate it, like I probably get 30% of my work from LinkedIn just for some context. Um, so what I did, and I need to update it some more, but, um, You basically turn your profile page into like a landing page. So you kind of talk about what you do, who you do it for, that's not that revolutionary.

But then where you have, and I have, if anyone wants to get on my mailing list, I made a like 15 minute explainer video on how I did this. Um, then instead of your, you know, how you kind of list your job or your, all your different job listings, the first few are actually your offers. You don't put in, like I worked at Sapient.

I have those there, but I used to have like this whole long thing, like in this, I was in this role from these years and these were the outcomes I took you. You get rid of all that and like three sentences of stuff that is germane to what I'm doing now. And so you just really edit it down and have it be focused to what you're doing now.

So that's the one thing. So it's kinda like this sales page basically. And, and those three, it's the first, your experiences of top ones are your offers. And then, you know, I do a lot of connecting with people and, um, I've actually recently started exploring sales navigator, which I'm actually liking a lot, uh, for a couple reasons, which I'm happy to get into.

But then, and so then I try and, you know, post twice a week. And my workflow now is pretty much, I, I kind of just have these. Notion pages of topics that will eventually be blog posts, but I'll just take stuff out of there, schedule it on LinkedIn, and then like have a call to action. And sometimes I will just, you know, be inspired and I'll do it real time in the morning, but at least twice a week I post.

And then I comment, I think people forget commenting is content and I really try to follow people that I enjoy. Yes, they are in my niche. There are people I enjoy following. So that's like a feed I really wanna be involved in. And I just try to add valuable commentary and not just like, interesting idea.

Thanks for sharing. Like really stuff. I think, you know, and sometimes it's funny and sometimes it's. Insightful, but I, I also enjoy it. If I'm gonna spend my time there, I want it to be a place I enjoy and not just completely mercenary. So, um, I mean that's, that's in a nutshell. And I, and I have a lot going on on my dms there, and I really got in the pandemic.

People were like, especially Britts, were like, you wanna jump on a coffee chat? And I was like, oh, I don't, and then I realized, yes, actually I did one or two. I was like, these are fantastic. So I am very much a friend of the. Let's have a 15 minute chat. What are you doing? What am I doing? Great to know you.

And then it really does bring the connections to life. Like you, if you have a short conversation with somebody, they're more than just a little, you know, avatar profile image and more of a person. And that could just be really helpful. The last thing I'd just say is I also am, um, connecting with a lot more strategic partners.

So I really am not just like looking for people who could be potential clients. So people that we could like refer clients to.

Lex: Yeah. The audience sharing strategy is really strong and I think is another great way to use networking, right? Yeah. Because then you can tap into their base, they can tap into your base, and then you have a qualified referral for your clients too, who are right.

Already trying to find, it's like a huge time saver, right? Yeah. If you're like, I already know an amazing person for you. So you mentioned LinkedIn is about 30% of your, of your lead gen or of your business. Mm-hmm. What's the other 70%?

Eleanor: So word of mouth. I mean, again, it's kind of hard to just like completely separate it because people will refer people to me, but they see that what I'm doing on LinkedIn.

Yeah. Um, some networking groups, uh, I got asked to speak and so then that will bring in work. Uh, from speaking. I did, um, during the pandemic, I did a bunch of, or not a bunch of, a couple of, um, Field trips from Creative Mornings and I got, I mean, this stuff has a long tail, so I, before I left, I had a sales call with a guy in Australia and I was like, how did you hear about me?

And he was like, oh. And it turned out it had been a creative mornings, I had been a, a year prior. So it's, it's really, I really do try and track it, but it's, a lot of it is just stuff from my existing network. Um, And LinkedIn and speaking things I've done. Um, let's talk about real quick, so since you're a web designer and you help people really get themselves online, and you were talking about online presence and how critical that is, and I totally agree.

Lex: Can you talk about where you see web design in the sort of digital marketing stack? What's its main function for business owners?

Eleanor: I think it is the hub and the house of their brand. And also a place to like make the final transaction, the final sale. So you can, you know, I'm not gonna stop you and say like, no, you must have a website if it makes more sense for you to start on Instagram or just do LinkedIn.

A lot of clients will come to me and they've just been like doing all their business from Link on LinkedIn, and that's, that's fine. But at some point it's just like, It confers legitimacy, like at some point you need to have it. And you know, I have the last couple of clients I've had, they're not like one does a lot of stuff on.

One does not have time for any content marketing, but she just needs a place to have like some case studies to show, to show the entire narrative because you get bits and bobs if you're doing posts here and there, but to like see the complete picture of who this person is, you kind of need one place for that.

Lex: Yeah, I think that's a wonderful way to position it because people think of their website as a lead generator, but it really is, I think tying together. I love that tying the hub of your business, tying together the narrative and. It really is like more on the closing side, right? Yeah. More of the like, oh, I know this person is, let me see what they offer and how I can give them my money.

Yeah. Yeah. A stronger place to position. Okay. I wanna, I'd like to wrap this up because we like to keep these speedy. Mm-hmm. Let me ask you a few closing questions. I love to ask everyone, if you could give one tip to the audience of how to connect with their best clients, what would it be?

Eleanor: I think now I have not gotten a ton of SEO traffic, but I've blogged quite a bit and that has been helpful 'cause it's clarified my own thinking.

I. And I repurpose that content in other places. And then when I do connect with somebody, like say on LinkedIn, I can refer them to a post that addresses their particular issue or whatever. So that has been a powerful way to like have something to share and demonstrate expertise and is not, you know, like, Let's get on a sales call just to kind of get myself out there and make a connection without being too pushy.

So, That's what I would say, and just visibility. I know it's like a really standard thing, but if I, if I just, the conversation we've been having, it's like people just, like I said, I'm, they see my stuff all the time, so I'm just top of mind.

Lex: Staying top of mind is key and that is what we are gonna do with you, Eleanor.

Can you let us know anything that you're doing lately or something that you're really focused on going into the end of summer, early fall that folks should know about?

Eleanor: Uh, a couple things. I am, uh, going to take a few more, like in September and October, a few more. Um, like just design, like VIP days 'cause I have a lot of stuff going on and I don't wanna longer form projects, so I don't have those on my site.

But if anybody's interested, they're really good for people that already have a Squarespace site, but just need, help, need like a designer to help them. Pretty it up like next level it in a day. So I'm gonna do some of those. And one thing I've been toying with, and you can just get in touch with me on my website if you're interested, this will really work best with people that are in Europe or maybe early risers on the East Coast.

But I did this in person and people really liked it. Where I, I, I do have a template. That, uh, a one page template. This is great for people that just need to get something up. And I did a one day in-person, like, let's get your one page site live for like five people. And I, I had a shared office page where's I don't have anymore, but I'm gonna do a live version of this.

So you buy the template, you have the course, you set it up, and then I'm gonna have just like office hours for a day. And it's at a much. It's much cheaper than hiring me to do your site so people can get in touch and get on my wait list for that. I'm probably gonna do it in September sometime.

Lex: What a fantastic offer. I love that. Get your site up in a day. Get a, I think it's such a strong play to say, okay, we can make this accessible, but you can get the professional angle here. Yeah. So great. Eleanor, thank you so much for being on the show. Appreciate your time.

Eleanor: Thanks. It was great being here, Lex. Thanks for having me.

Lex: Eleanor makes networking sounds so easy, doesn't she? One of the reasons is that she chooses who she wants to network and spend time with, as evidenced by her podcast, the Germany Expat Business Show. She's defining her own circles and her own spaces that she wants to be participating in. She's building a clientele and a network that she actually enjoys talking to.

I also appreciated her call out of productized services as a way to make creative projects more efficient. Dig into her launch in a day, offer on her website to see how she does it. Find all her links in the show notes. If you're experimenting with how to find your clients, join us in the Growth Gym. The Growth Gym is where you put your marketing ideas to the test.

Skill up on how to choose your strongest marketing moves when you join me. Fridays at noon Eastern on YouTube and LinkedIn. Get on my newsletter to be notified.

If you liked this episode, check out why partnerships are my favorite small business sales strategy. This is advice I wish I could go back and tell myself. Audience sharing is a faster way to reach your most qualified client. Stop going one by one and learn how to reach your audience at scale with that episode.

Until next time, keep that energy low until you know the value will be high.