Going beyond social media marketing with Laura Sinclair

Laura Sinclair: Building a business on Instagram, those days are done. There's a big difference between owning a business and having a social media account. And so what I see is the businesses that are struggling the most right now are the ones that actually lack foundations. 

Lex Roman: The heyday of Instagram is fading. Entrepreneurs who are selling like hotcakes on there have now turned to things like email marketing and podcasting to make sure they actually make sales. You can no longer rely on social media to drive business for you, maybe you never could. To hear more about how you can incorporate social media without making it the center of your universe. We talk to Laura Sinclair.

Laura runs a boutique social media marketing agency called the LJ Social Agency. She's also a marketing and business mentor, and she has a popular podcast called This Mother Means Business. You'll want to listen in to why Laura shut down her successful CrossFit gym to start her social media agency, how Instagram helped her then and how she uses it now, and what foundations she thinks you need in place to help people move from the scroll to the sale. I'm Lex Roman. I help creatives make smarter marketing bets, and you're tuned in to the Low Energy Leads Show.

Lex: I want to go back, not as far back as the CrossFit Gym, but back to the beginning of LJ Social and talk about the formation of that business. How did it get started and who were you working with at that time?

Laura: Yeah, so my business really started out of necessity, and so not to sprint back too far because that would make for a very long and boring podcast episode. I did own a crossroad gym for a period of time, and in March of 2020 I owned that gym. It was, I don't know, when we closed, March 15th, when everything shut down for two weeks. An abundance of caution. I think probably if you'd asked me March 1st, what my life 2020, what my life plan was, I was like, I'm just going to run my multi six figure gym forever. But the universe had other plans, and so when we shut down in March of 2020, I was actually eight weeks pregnant with my now three-year-old son, and so I live in Ontario, Canada. We were under very strict restrictions during the pandemic, and so my gym closed. We made the decision to close the gym, a family decision, a lifestyle decision, a pandemic beat, the ever living junk out of my gym business decision, and we actually closed at the end of 2020. 

So at that point, I had a three month old baby, a two and a half week month old baby. I had been an entrepreneur for five, six years at that point, and I was not about to go back to leave my baby with a nanny and go back and get a job being Canadian. I have the unique privilege that my American friends don't have in that it's very common for a woman with a two and a half year old baby in the United States to go back to a corporate job in Canada. We have mat leave for about a year, 18 months. So it would've been very foreign or very almost strange. There was no daycare that was taking my two and a half month old baby. That's not how things are here, and that wasn't my desire. And so it came from a place of being entrepreneurial and knowing that there's lots of ways that I can make money and needing to do the thing that was easiest. 

And prior to owning a CrossFit gym, I have a corporate marketing background. I started my career in public relations. I ran all the social media for some of the world's biggest brands here in Canada back in 2008 when I started my career, when Twitter was the thing and brands were letting the interns run their Twitter accounts, I was the intern, so I had been in this space for quite some time, left it, ran my cross the gym for five years, and then it was like, okay, what's easy because I'm scrappy and I wasn't about to go back to work for somebody else. And so I started teaching small business owners how to use social media to grow their business. Having been an entrepreneur at that point for five years, I had met a lot of other small business owners. There are a lot of small business owners that gravitate towards CrossFit for whatever reason. 

I think some of it's just schedule. I think you're an entrepreneur, you're already kind of a high achieving individual, and CrossFit's expensive. So there are people that had the means and more often than not, that was an entrepreneur. And the thing that I was realizing was just how genuinely bad most of them are at marketing their businesses. They're really good at the skills that they have, but just absolutely terrible at marketing their business.

There's one in particular members at our gym. They owned a cabinet kitchen refinishing cabinet company, and they told me that they spent $10,000 on a local television ad and didn't get any clients from it. And I'm like, yeah, obviously you thought that you would've. And so that was sort of an impetus for me of realizing, oh, I actually have a lot of skills that most business owners and I was able to use those skills to build a really successful gym business over the last five years. And so it really just came from a place of like, yeah, this is easy for me to do and I know that there's a need for it. And that's kind of how I began. 

Lex: So in the early days, were you working with a lot of brick and mortar local businesses or who were your clients? 

Laura: No, so in the early days it was all people that I knew. And so I literally just made an Instagram account posted on my Facebook page, Hey, I'm doing this now. And I was really lucky because I was known in my community already across the gym, there's a lot of people that come in and out of that facility. And so I was already pretty well respected as a business owner. And so I think the first day I put it on my Instagram, Hey, I'm doing this now. And I think within the first week there were three people that were reaching out and they were like, yes, I want to help you. At that point, I had no offer. I didn't actually know what I was doing. It wasn't like, yeah, yeah, here it is. So I literally came up with it in an afternoon what I was actually offering these people, and it just kind of snowballed from there.

Lex: And those three people were people that you knew, you already had relationships with them. 

Laura: So there was one gentleman that was a graphic designer, and I knew him actually from, I was a nutrition coach for a long time, and he was my nutrition coaching client. There was a girl that was a photographer and she shot my wedding actually and was a member at our gym. And then there was a girl that owned a distillery who I had known 10 years before. She was the personal trainer of my old boss. Weird connections, but people that saw that have known me, they respected me even if they knew me when I was at that point, 23, 24, 25 when I was meeting some of these people, but had respect for me, watched what I did and whether I knew it or not, I was kind of building my own personal brand, which I knew that now, but at the time didn't really realize that's what I was doing. And so those were my first three clients.

Lex: Love it. And you leaned a lot as you were building this offer of social media marketing. You also used social media marketing as you started growing that business. Can you tell us a little bit about how that worked? 

Laura: Yeah, so I think it's sort of twofold. So I used it because that was what I was selling, and I also caught myself in the trap a little bit. And so as a person that teaches building an online business, it's very easy to get caught in the trap. And so if I take a couple of steps back, let's go back in the story for a minute. Pre Covid, I had actually signed up for an online coaching program. I was doing a lot of postnatal fitness and helping women. I had built this program in my gym where I was helping women return to exercise after having their babies because there's actually a lot of nuance to it. And a lot of women, myself included, after my daughter who's now six, did a lot of really silly things and as a result ended up with some injuries and things that I had to rehabilitate because I was just trying to get lose weight and get back into fitness. 

And I did it all the wrong way. And so pre covid, I had actually hired a girl, her name's Jessica Rose. I joined her program called Empower University to build an online postnatal fitness business. And so that course was amazing, but what I got out of it the most actually, was that I think I paid $5,000 us to do it. And there were 50 people in the group, and I was like, I'm not great at math, but I can do that math. And I remember being like, I had never seen anything like that. It was a 12 week program. I had never seen a person pull that off. It's like, what am I looking at? What is happening? And so that for me was the first hint of what's possible. And Jess teaches, and this isn't a discredit to Jess, she's incredible. She teaches a very much social media focused, organic marketing, social media go approach. 

That is her model. And so that was the model that I had in my head when I was like, I fell out of love with fitness just with everything that happened with the gym and where it was at. It just mentally was a bit of a death for me when we closed. So for me, that was where what I had come to understand as far as building your business online, forgetting that I had just built an entire business pretty much not online, some of it online, but a brick and mortar business five years before that.

And the 10 years of marketing experience I had before that, it was like I just kind of forgot all of it and found myself down the rabbit hole of following some of these online, I don't want to call them influencers, but online business coaches. And so that really pushed like, oh, all you need to do is build a following and post every day. And so that worked for me for a while until it didn't. And some of it is because I'm an introvert, which you and I have talked about before. I also am a mom of two. I also don't desire to create that much content. And so certainly it worked for a bit, and then I just kind of got to the point where I was just tired of feeling like I was yelling into the abyss and hoping that somebody was going to answer me. 

Lex: I'm really curious. So I'm witnessing as we go into 2024, well, this episode is airing in 2024, but we're witnessing this shift in the online business owner space where there was a huge influx of online business owners in 2020 and 2021, and I think it was a uniquely online time as far as the last 20 years of the internet goes. Do you think that that was a little bit right time, right place in terms of being able to leverage social media marketing? Do you think that that strategy is fading for everyone, or is it just something that each business owner goes through on their own? 

Laura: I think it's 100% fading for everybody. And I think this is where I see this a lot, and I'm actually seeing this with some of the clients that I have right now that are coming to me and they're saying, 2020, 2021 were the best years in my business, and now it's 2022, 2023. Things aren't good. And the first question I ask them is, okay, how are you getting clients? What are you doing? Well, I have an Instagram account. Okay, so what you've actually done is you've skipped the entire foundation of your business that you need in order to do that, right? The days of people discovering you on Instagram and buying from you are kind of over, 

And I don't want to say completely over because it does still happen to me. Like every now and then, someone will say, Hey, I found you from this reel that you posted. I really resonated. I mean, if you ever follow me on Instagram, I know you're not an Instagram user, Lex, but I shoot it pretty straight on Instagram. And so I'm just 100% authentically myself. I just say what's on my mind.

Sometimes probably to my detriment, I can see my follower account disappear. But for the people that hate it, there's usually one or two people that love it and are like, how do I work with you? It doesn't mean I don't think it's gone forever. It's just been really interesting actually over the last couple of years to watch some of those online influencers or coaches that I was following, really starting to lean into email marketing and really starting to create some in-person things. 

This recognition that actually, but building a business on Instagram, those days are done. There's a big difference between owning a business and having a social media account. And so what I see is the businesses that are struggling the most right now are the ones that actually lack foundations. Yeah. Ooh, tell us what those foundations are. I would love to. So the biggest piece is having an actual lead generation and lead nurture strategy, a way to actually build relationships with people over time.

The trap that we fall into is that, oh, they just follow me on Instagram, so I just post there and I show up my stories. That's enough. It's like, well, how many people's names do you actually know? And then what other touch points are there? There's an old marketing statistic that's like somebody needs to see something seven times before they take action on it. 

And I think that that number, I don't know if they've redone that number, they should, because I'm sure that it's way higher than that now, especially when you think about how well you're just inundated all day long with options and opportunities and last chances all day, all day, every day, even if you're not a person that hangs out on your phone, you go for a drive, you watch tv, you're listening to the radio. It's constant, constant barrage of marketing messages.

So to go back to your question about foundations, it's really being super clear on your offer. You're being really clear on your messaging, also being really clear on what your audience needs to know from you to take action, and not just in what is your social media content, but for me it's like if you are a person that wants to use social media, how are you using that to drive people somewhere else to then nurture those people and have communication with those people and foster those relationships over time? 

The easiest way to do that as a small business is email list.

A lot of people are using text lists because the open rate on texts is generally higher. I mean, there's not a ton of people I know that have tons of unread text messages on a daily basis. And then really just understanding what the funnel is, what is the process of a person discovering you? And then, and I think at its most basic form, it's social media into email list, into via whatever that is, into welcome sequence, into nurture sequence, into offer sequence, whatever. But there's other ways to do it too. It doesn't necessarily just, and I know we're going to talk about this more, it's not just about social media. It's like, can you go into a room, go to an event, and also put somebody through that process? It's been really interesting to watch some of these bigger names in the online Instagram business space, all of a sudden sending me emails or doing free things to use those as lead nurture or lead generation to then send an email. So yes, to answer your question, that was my very long-winded answer. Do I think that it's dead? Yes. Dying? Maybe not fully dead, but dying For sure. 

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Lex: On that point, where do you think Instagram and other social media channels fit within that lead nurture? I do think a lot of people think of it as visibility, but as you mentioned in the earlier part of this interview, your first clients didn't really come from Instagram. Instagram was sitting kind of lower down in that funnel, or I like to call it a loop. And I have clients that are similarly, they use social media, but it's actually not the visibility channel. It's lower down. It's more of the stay in touch channel. So where does it sit for most of your clients now? 

Laura: So for most of my clients, they come to me, it's the channel, and then we try to move it away from it. I like to speak about where's your hero? What's your hero in your business? For some people that's Instagram probably shouldn't be just throwing it out there. For me, I have a podcast. So podcast is where a lot of my content comes from. And obviously you, Lex and your videos and the content that you create, this is, I'm assuming probably the hero in your funnel as well, or your loop. For me, I get them to try to deprioritize it or to use it as a tool to send them to a different hero. I think that there's a place for it. I mean, I own a boutique social media marketing agency, so it's hard for me to be like, oh, you don't need social media. 

You do, because of the ways that people for the most part are researching, and this is nuanced. So if you're a one person business and you are building your business largely through relations and referrals, you probably don't need to spend that time on that much time on social media. If you have a larger brand, there is a piece of evidence that a customer looks for. If I'm going to use the distillery coming to my mind, if you run a distillery and you're selling your spirits, but you don't have a social media account, I probably have questions, is this legit? Are you real? Right? So there's that piece of it. But for me, I think I enjoy social media to a point I also have built, and the way that I use it is really about building relationships and encouraging communication. I've gotten really bad at this, but my dms are out of control. 

I have conversations with, when I'm on social media, most of the time is spent actually having conversations with people in my dms now rather than just trying to post seven times a day because that's what Brock Johnson told me to do, or whoever you're following on is here. And so I think some of it's how you choose to use the tool, but also at the end of the day, if you're not using social media to drive people somewhere else are kind of missing the point or you are setting yourself up to fail because at some point the algorithm's going to change the three to 4% of people that see your content is going to become 1%, and you're just going to always feel like you're behind. 

Lex: Even though you run a social media marketing agency, you've also moved away from social media. So can you tell us how you get clients now? What's sort of changed in the last few years? 

Laura: So for me, my podcast is a really big one. People will find my podcast, they'll actually just got a DM right before I got on this to record this from someone that says, Hey, I found your podcast. I listened to the first episode. I'm not going to lie. I cried the entire time and I completely resonate with everything that you said. And so for me, there's two sides of my business. There's the coaching side of my business, which for my podcast is huge.

For my agency. It's largely referrals, and that is a lot to do with how I choose to run that side of my business. So I'll give it to you on both sides. So on the agency side, I run a boutique model. So we never have more than 10 clients. And because of that, I'm really particular about my clients. It's like when I meet with people, it's more like me interviewing them than it's really them interviewing me. 

And that's largely because of where I'm at. I am a mom of two, I'm an introvert. Serving clients is exhausting. And so I need to serve clients that are, we're going to be partners. I don't want that I work for you, energy, we work with you. So that's sort of the agency side. It's entirely referral or somebody meets me, they hear me. I do deliver a fair amount of trainings, groups that I'm part of, I speak.

People will see me there and then they'll be like, oh, maybe I should talk to Laura. So that's really the big one for the agency. And because that's not a volume business, it's easy to run that way. On the coaching side of my business, I mentioned my podcast, that's a really big one. But the other one that is starting to become bigger for me is joining communities. 

It's going to events. Recently I went to a brunch, like a local brunch, like 45 minutes from my house. It was for entrepreneurial women or ambitious women. And the woman beside me and the woman across from me became coaching clients. And so that's for me, when I think about 2024, I know we're in 2024 with the slides, but that's what I'm focusing my marketing on.

Am I going to show up on social media? Of course, I actually enjoy it. So for me, I will do that. But where I'm going to actually be investing my dollars is going to events both locally and internationally where it feels good for me and where it makes sense in my life. But for me, it's always like, okay, same questions you ask yourself on social media, right? Okay, where does your ideal client hang out online? Go there. Okay. Where does your ideal client hang out in real life? Go there. 

Lex: Do you find a difference between free events or paid events or is there something that you're looking for when you're going to these communities or you're choosing this brunch or something like that? I talk to a lot of entrepreneurs who are networking and they're like, it's not working. And my bias is I think they're kind of showing up in the wrong rooms. So how do you make sure you're in the right rooms? 

Laura: It's a little of both. I actually think it's sometimes not the right rooms. And I also think it's more often than not the wrong approach. And so people will, and I know this because this is what I used to do, right? It's like I would go into a room with the intent of being like, I got to get some clients. I got to sell myself. No wrong approach. That is the wrong approach. I promise you right now, I did not go to that brunch being like, man, I'm going to scrape some clients from this event. That wasn't it at all. It was just, I'm going to show up. I'm going to be who I am and I'm going to serve. But the other piece of it's really knowing the intention of the person that's there. So for example, and you and I have a mutual friend, Kristina Bartold. 

Her and I were just having this conversation the other day, is that she can, because she owns a social media marketing agency, different model than mine, she runs a volume model. I run a boutique model. So typically when I'm going, and because my agency is largely referral, when I'm going to an event, I'm not going to an event for my social media marketing agency. I'm just not. I'm going to event for the coaching side of my business and to support people.

When Kristina goes to an event, if she's in a room of 20 entrepreneurs, regardless of the event, she's probably going to end up with five to 10 of those people are going to end up being her social media marketing clients. Whereas if I go into an event, I'm a business mentor, and so if I'm going into an event where people are already there being mentored by somebody, it's a weird room for me to be in. Then if that's the room I'm in, they're there to see that other person. They're not there for me. So a lot of it is understanding why it's not just what the room is, but why is that person in this room? 

I have seen a lot of my clients show up to serve in rooms where they were never going to get partners or clients out of those rooms because as you said, those people were not there. They were there for a different purpose. And so you really have to play that forward a bit. And I want to step back on that note to the agency being driven by referrals, because referrals to me always breaks down to a system.

There's a lot that goes into that, and it comes across. I feel like when people say that, because people will come into my business and they'll say, I'm getting most of my clients from word of mouth. It's like, okay, well let's break down word of mouth the way that we might break down the food that you eat in a week. What do you eat all week? I eat food. Yes, you get things from word of mouth, but that word of mouth is really a stacked system of some of these networking things that you're doing of the relationships that you're keeping up with of some of these masterminds and groups that you're a part of, communities, et cetera. So I'm curious what some of those mechanisms are that make up the referral network. 

So I think the big one, and this is the one that most people forget to do, is to actually ask, if you're not asking for referrals and you're expecting them to show up, what are you doing? So whenever I meet a person, so just from a straight word of mouth perspective, whenever I meet a person, whether it's I'm on their podcast, they're on mine, somebody's connecting me on the call, I always make an ask of them. And my ask is twofold, right?

It's either, Hey, if you meet any other incredible entrepreneurial moms along the way, I'd love to connect with them, talk about 'em on the podcast. Or if you meet somebody that feels like they have good energy and they're looking for social media marketing, or if you know somebody, I would love to connect. And so I'm always asking people for referrals. Honestly, the piece of referrals that we forget is just to ask. And I don't know why. I think it's, I mean, there's the stories that we tell ourselves about not wanting to bother people or ask for too much, but you got to ask for referrals. Yeah, I mean, I think it really is one of the most flattened and discarded marketing strategies, and yet it is single handedly the biggest lead source for almost everyone who's ever come on this show. But it's also the easiest way to get business. It's the easiest. It's so much easier than any other tactic we could talk about, 

Lex: But I do think there's some complexity to it. I will say as an exception, my business has really never been referral driven. I've been in business for four years. Referrals have never been a major source for me. And I have clients also who struggle with that because I think some businesses are more, they're easier to refer than others.

And I also think the fact that you're out there networking in all these substantial ways are a huge contributor to the relationships that you're building. And I have entrepreneurs that I work with who are not as keen on that kind of relationship building, and so referrals become much more challenging in that way. So when I say referral system, I don't necessarily mean the tracking system. I mean the fact that you're building a lot of substantial relationships and keeping up with them in different ways. 

Laura: And I think there's a piece of, and this is where it starts to get sticky, I think, for people, and because I know you're Low Energy Leads, which I love this, but I do think, and I'm the last person that will ever be like, you need to work harder. You need to do more, do more. No, no, not me at all. But I do think that there is this misnomer that like, oh, if I'm just going to build it, people are going to come, right? I'm going to launch my product and I'm going to put it on a site. I actually had a client in one of my masterminds who spent four years creating a product, and I met them when the product was already landed in their home, and they're like, nobody's buying, but I've been working on this for four years. It's like, well, great. 

How many events have you gone to? How many people have you networked with? How many stores have you talked to about this is coming in? Have you done any of that? Well? Well, no. Okay, so that stuff has to happen.

As entrepreneurs, and you're talking to an introvert, you are listening to an introvert right now, my preference would absolutely be to sit at home in my sweatpants and talk to no one. It really would, but that's not reality. You do have to, and there's nuances to this regardless of based on your type of business, but there is a certain amount of inserting yourself that is required. 

Lex: I want to talk about the mastermind community, the high level stuff that you've done, both the stuff that you've attended and the stuff that you're running. So Fast Foundations is one of these things. Was that the first one that you went to in person? 

Laura: Yes. Fast Foundations was the first in-person mastermind. First time I had left my babies, I got on a plane all by myself, which by the way, I love doing me going on a plane by myself. I did that all the time before I got married and had kids. And so yes, I got on a plane, went to Arizona all by myself in April of 2022. That was the first time I went. Yeah. What 

Lex: Was the role of Fast Foundations for you in your business? 

Laura: I would say if I were to kind of put a bow on my Fast Foundations experience, really it, it's truly been about connections. It's about people that I have in my corner now that I didn't have before. People that understand what it is that I go through on a day-to-day basis, but also people that are forcing me to think bigger.

They make me think bigger all the time. And I can guarantee you that if you are not a person that puts yourself in environments with other people that ask you to think bigger or push you to think bigger, you aren't thinking big enough. You think that you're thinking big, and then you're around other people that are either doing bigger or wanting bigger, and you're like, oh, girl, I thought I was thinking big. Even as far as September of this year, I went to Chris Harder's two day round table in September, and I was like, yeah, I'm thinking big. And I get in this room and there's multi seven figure business owners talking about their 2024 goals, and I was like, me. 

I was like, wow, this was cute, Laura. That was a nice idea that you thought that you were thinking big. There's a piece of it that is stretching yourself. That's really important. 

Lex: Laura, if you could give one tip to our listener about how to connect with their best clients, what would it be? 

Laura: It was the tip that I actually already gave, and it was really just around understanding where they are and why, right? Knowing why they're there. This brunch that I referenced was the perfect example. People are there for connection, and I knew that. So I went there and I connected with people in the fullest expression of my magic. So I think that as sort of clinical as that sounds is it's like, okay, that they're there at this event and why?

The nuanced piece of it is really knowing and being super clear and confident, which is also nuanced in who it is that you are and what you bring to people. And I know that's easier said than done, and as a person that has social anxiety, as a person that is an introvert, lemme tell you, I talk myself out of going to base. I try to talk myself out of going to every event that I go to by the way, as I'll be like, no, I'm just not going to go. No, you're going to go. It's like I literally have this little conversation with both sides of my brain and it's like, no, you paid. You're going. I can coach myself through those moments. But really just being clinical about it, if you're going to make the investment to go to a place that it's the right place, you better show up as who you fully are.

Lex: Love it. What's coming up for you in 2024? What should folks know about? 

Laura: Yeah, so I run a mastermind for entrepreneurial women. I do that, entrepreneurial mothers, wow. Words are hard for me at the end of this episode, and I run that twice a year. So it's called ambition. There'll be a cohort that starts mid-January, and then we'll start another cohort in July.

The big things for me really are my podcast: This Mother Means Business that we drop episodes twice a week and my agency, if you are a person that wants to outsource your social media, I'm always happy to have those conversations as well. But the other big thing is we talked a lot about getting in rooms.

I do host a connection call, and so every second Tuesday at 10:00 AM Eastern Time, they've all rebranded it as the community hug. I call it the community connection call, but the people that are in it call it our biweekly hug. And so if you want to come and hang out with me and some other incredible entrepreneurial women, just send me a dm. You can just send me the word connect if that feels good on, or you can send me an email, laura@laurajanesocial.com, and I'll send you the link so that you can be a part of that call every second Tuesday. 

Lex: Who doesn't want to go to a weekly hug? 

Laura: I mean, it's a great call. It's a free call. I should tell you that it is free. We connect. I give business help. There's usually a lot of other really incredible entrepreneurs on that call so that if you need help with a range of things, there's always people there that are willing to give help because I think that's all part of it. We all need to lift each other up. 

Lex: So true. Beautiful. Laura, thank you for being on the show and sharing your wisdom with us. 

Laura: Thank you for having me. 

Lex: Given that Laura is a social media marketer now, I was surprised to hear that she didn't think all businesses needed social media. I love her reframe of social as a marker of evidence for customers doing research and as something that businesses that are larger who might not meet their customers person to person every day might need social, can still have a role, but it doesn't need to be the main part of your marketing, and you don't have to use it if you don't want to. There's always another way.

If you liked this episode, you should check out the one I did about why I deleted Instagram. I talk about my reasons for letting it go and how I realized it wasn't really that critical to my business. And actually seven months later, not a lot has changed. I still don't use Instagram. So go check that video out if you're thinking you might veil on social too.

Until next time, keep your energy low until the value will be high.